If you've devoted much of your life to the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects, and you enjoy interacting with our international community, this is an opportunity for you to turn your hobby into a profession. Effective immediately, the Wikimedia Foundation is looking for a Volunteer Coordinator who will lead in opening up new opportunities for volunteers to contribute to the mission and day-to-day work of the Foundation.
Ideally, you will work in the Wikimedia Office in St. Petersburg, Florida. Please also specify whether you would prefer part-time or full-time work.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
== Responsibilities ==
As Volunteer Coordinator, your responsibilities will include: * maintaining a global, public list of tasks across different work areas, through communicating with committees/officers, which would indicate which areas need volunteer work the most critically at any given time. * advising the Board and ED during the setup of new volunteer groups and committees * ensuring that all volunteer groups in the WMF are operational and reporting their activities on a regular basis; evaluating performance (cat herding experience and international diplomacy skills will help ;-) * being a first personal point of contact for people who wish to do volunteer work for the organization, but don't know where to start * organizing and advertising regular online events and tutorials to educate people about different areas of volunteering * reporting when existing volunteer groups such as committees or workgroups are apparently dysfunctional, and recommending structural changes where needed * collecting and documenting best practices for volunteer management, partially based on communicating with other non-profits and studying research on the topic * representing Wikimedia at events where we might find useful volunteers from a specific background.
In short, you will be responsible for achieving what is absolutely critical for the long term sustainability of the Foundation: involving volunteers in every part of our mission.
== Prior experience ==
You should have some familiarity with the Wikimedia Foundation, its processes, and its projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikisource, Wikimedia Commons, and so on). Prior experience in online and real world volunteer organizing is a definite advantage, as is work experience in project management, scheduling, and communications.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
If you have questions about this job description, please respond on the list or to me privately. Feel free to forward this message to other lists.
Erik Möller Executive Secretary, Wikimedia Foundation
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does not have its head office in or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice weather what does St Pete / Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded organizations; not to mention easy access to consulates)?
You need to sell the location along with the job if you want people to move their families there. Wikia has already moved from St Pete to the San Francisco Bay Area. Might we want to explore why that move was made?
-- mav
--- Erik Moeller [email protected] wrote:
If you've devoted much of your life to the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects, and you enjoy interacting with our international community, this is an opportunity for you to turn your hobby into a profession. Effective immediately, the Wikimedia Foundation is looking for a Volunteer Coordinator who will lead in opening up new opportunities for volunteers to contribute to the mission and day-to-day work of the Foundation.
Ideally, you will work in the Wikimedia Office in St. Petersburg, Florida. Please also specify whether you would prefer part-time or full-time work.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
== Responsibilities ==
As Volunteer Coordinator, your responsibilities will include:
- maintaining a global, public list of tasks across different work
areas, through communicating with committees/officers, which would indicate which areas need volunteer work the most critically at any given time.
- advising the Board and ED during the setup of new volunteer groups
and committees
- ensuring that all volunteer groups in the WMF are operational and
reporting their activities on a regular basis; evaluating performance (cat herding experience and international diplomacy skills will help ;-)
- being a first personal point of contact for people who wish to do
volunteer work for the organization, but don't know where to start
- organizing and advertising regular online events and tutorials to
educate people about different areas of volunteering
- reporting when existing volunteer groups such as committees or
workgroups are apparently dysfunctional, and recommending structural changes where needed
- collecting and documenting best practices for volunteer management,
partially based on communicating with other non-profits and studying research on the topic
- representing Wikimedia at events where we might find useful
volunteers from a specific background.
In short, you will be responsible for achieving what is absolutely critical for the long term sustainability of the Foundation: involving volunteers in every part of our mission.
== Prior experience ==
You should have some familiarity with the Wikimedia Foundation, its processes, and its projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikisource, Wikimedia Commons, and so on). Prior experience in online and real world volunteer organizing is a definite advantage, as is work experience in project management, scheduling, and communications.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
If you have questions about this job description, please respond on the list or to me privately. Feel free to forward this message to other lists.
Erik Möller Executive Secretary, Wikimedia Foundation
foundation-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Might it be that we are incorporated as a 5013C non-profit HERE in the state of Florida ~ there is much to offer here in St. Pete INCLUDING the nice weather and many like minded non-profit organizations locally. What reason would we have to be near a consulate? ~ C
Daniel Mayer wrote:
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does not have its head office in or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice weather what does St Pete / Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded organizations; not to mention easy access to consulates)?
You need to sell the location along with the job if you want people to move their families there. Wikia has already moved from St Pete to the San Francisco Bay Area. Might we want to explore why that move was made?
-- mav
--- Erik Moeller [email protected] wrote:
If you've devoted much of your life to the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects, and you enjoy interacting with our international community, this is an opportunity for you to turn your hobby into a profession. Effective immediately, the Wikimedia Foundation is looking for a Volunteer Coordinator who will lead in opening up new opportunities for volunteers to contribute to the mission and day-to-day work of the Foundation.
Ideally, you will work in the Wikimedia Office in St. Petersburg, Florida. Please also specify whether you would prefer part-time or full-time work.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
== Responsibilities ==
As Volunteer Coordinator, your responsibilities will include:
- maintaining a global, public list of tasks across different work
areas, through communicating with committees/officers, which would indicate which areas need volunteer work the most critically at any given time.
- advising the Board and ED during the setup of new volunteer groups
and committees
- ensuring that all volunteer groups in the WMF are operational and
reporting their activities on a regular basis; evaluating performance (cat herding experience and international diplomacy skills will help ;-)
- being a first personal point of contact for people who wish to do
volunteer work for the organization, but don't know where to start
- organizing and advertising regular online events and tutorials to
educate people about different areas of volunteering
- reporting when existing volunteer groups such as committees or
workgroups are apparently dysfunctional, and recommending structural changes where needed
- collecting and documenting best practices for volunteer management,
partially based on communicating with other non-profits and studying research on the topic
- representing Wikimedia at events where we might find useful
volunteers from a specific background.
In short, you will be responsible for achieving what is absolutely critical for the long term sustainability of the Foundation: involving volunteers in every part of our mission.
== Prior experience ==
You should have some familiarity with the Wikimedia Foundation, its processes, and its projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikisource, Wikimedia Commons, and so on). Prior experience in online and real world volunteer organizing is a definite advantage, as is work experience in project management, scheduling, and communications.
Please send applications, including a Curriculum Vitae, to: <jobs at wikimedia dot org>.
If you have questions about this job description, please respond on the list or to me privately. Feel free to forward this message to other lists.
Erik Möller Executive Secretary, Wikimedia Foundation
foundation-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
foundation-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 3/1/07, Carolyn Doran [email protected] wrote:
Might it be that we are incorporated as a 5013C non-profit HERE in the state of Florida
That can be changed relatively easily, and really doesn't matter all that much anyway. As long as the WMF maintains a registered agent here in Florida they can have their head offices anywhere.
there is much to offer here in St. Pete INCLUDING the nice weather and many like minded non-profit organizations locally.
Could you offer us with some details as to those like-minded non-profits? The only one I can think of is the Poynter Institute/St. Pete Times, and I'm not even aware of whether or not any sort of relationship has been established with them yet. Then again, non-profit media companies seem to me to be fairly rare.
To be clear, I'm not challenging your statement, I just think we'd all benefit from some details.
Anthony
--- Carolyn Doran [email protected] wrote:
Might it be that we are incorporated as a 5013C non-profit HERE in the state of Florida ~ there is much to offer here in St. Pete INCLUDING the nice weather and many like minded non-profit organizations locally. What reason would we have to be near a consulate? ~ C
Place of incorporation did not stop Wikia from moving. IIRC, part of the reason for the move was to be in a place where there was a higher concentration of like-minded organizations and also a place where there was a higher concentration of relevant talent.
As for St Pete/Tampa, I would be very interested in seeing a list of like-minded organizations in the Tampa Bay area. Anthony already listed some great reasons why St Pete would be a good place to live. I would like to hear more. Im sure potential employees would also like to hear more.
-- mav
____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- Carolyn Doran [email protected] wrote:
What reason would we have to be near a consulate? ~ C
Any organization that claims to be international in scope, would ideally be based in close proximity to representatives from many national governments. Of course, that is not the only thing to consider.
-- mav
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Carolyn Doran [email protected] wrote:
What reason would we have to be near a consulate? ~ C
Any organization that claims to be international in scope, would ideally be based in close proximity to representatives from many national governments. Of course, that is not the only thing to consider.
-- mav
I hardly consider that to be a major issue for an organization that is founded upon and relies upon electronic communication for most of its activity. In America (assuming that this means the WMF must stay in the USA) that really leaves just a very limited number of cities you could put it in: New York City and Washington, DC. In California, while there are many consulates there, they tend to be split up between Los Angeles and San Francisco in roughly equal proportions depending on the country involved. And for smaller countries they will only have an embassy or consulate in DC or NYC.
For those particular situations where face to face meetings are absolutely required, you can easily fly from St. Pete to one of those two cities anyway at a modest cost, or even to the country who you are trying to deal with directly. I would presume that any such meeting would be a very rare exception anyway and would not be at all necessary in terms of day to day operations of the foundation. Certainly the cost of an airline flight would be trivial compared to the increased cost of daily living in either of these two cities for what would realistically be of marginal improved value for the foundation.
-- Robert Horning
Robert Horning wrote:
Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Carolyn Doran [email protected] wrote:
What reason would we have to be near a consulate? ~ C
Any organization that claims to be international in scope, would ideally be based in close proximity to representatives from many national governments. Of course, that is not the only thing to consider.
-- mav
I hardly consider that to be a major issue for an organization that is founded upon and relies upon electronic communication for most of its activity. In America (assuming that this means the WMF must stay in the USA) that really leaves just a very limited number of cities you could put it in: New York City and Washington, DC. In California, while there are many consulates there, they tend to be split up between Los Angeles and San Francisco in roughly equal proportions depending on the country involved. And for smaller countries they will only have an embassy or consulate in DC or NYC.
For those particular situations where face to face meetings are absolutely required, you can easily fly from St. Pete to one of those two cities anyway at a modest cost, or even to the country who you are trying to deal with directly. I would presume that any such meeting would be a very rare exception anyway and would not be at all necessary in terms of day to day operations of the foundation. Certainly the cost of an airline flight would be trivial compared to the increased cost of daily living in either of these two cities for what would realistically be of marginal improved value for the foundation.
-- Robert Horning
Note that currently, the majority of board members live in Europe. Going to the east coast is already a bit of a pain. Going to the west coast is not really going to help. Longer flights.
Another point is time difference. The meeting window is already tough to assume (most of my phone calls with the USA take place mid afternoon, or after 22 pm my time) due to the 6 hours difference. Time difference with the west coast is 9 hours. Which means the mid afternoon time slot is not practical.
Amongst the "costs" of moving the west coast, I would add tiredness for having to still wake up at 6 am everyday for the family, but work very late within the night to keep in touch with the office. Tough.
So, east coast would be preferable certainly. A big city would also make travelling easier. But as mentionned previously, it would cost much more (higher salaries, higher hosting costs)
I presume it could be an option in the future to move the office (or to have several offices). I do not think it is reasonable now to consider that.
ant
On 01/03/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
Any organization that claims to be international in scope, would ideally be based in close proximity to representatives from many national governments.
One could argue the logical endpoint of that is to move wholesale to Brussels... ;-)
--- Andrew Gray [email protected] wrote:
I think to a great degree this is a modern shift; it's becoming less and less vital for an organisation to have to be in a major city in order to function, especially an organisation which is simply a central point for a wide virtual network.
IIRC, something like 70% of communication is non-verbal. Being in close proximity to many like-minded organizations and representatives from other nations, would therefore be advantageous to our goal. You simply are not going to find that in St Pete.
As an organization, we have already found that we can accomplish a great deal more with face-to-face meetings that by using IRC, phones and email. Proximity will increase opportunities for communication and thus relationship building.
The savings in travel expenses combined with increasing the opportunities to establish strategic relationships (and funding opportunities) should more than offset the increased cost in rent and in cost in living increases for staff. Those costs can and should be mitigated for by avoiding actually having the office in a world city, but just outside it.
But that is a longer term strategy. Right now, I think we should try to make best use of our current location. Thus the need I expressed to sell St Petes / Tampas good points and take full advantage of that. However, I dont think it would be a good idea, in the long term, to keep the main office there (an office could continue to be there, just not the main one).
-- mav
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On 3/2/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
But that is a longer term strategy. Right now, I think we should try to make best use of our current location. Thus the need I expressed to sell St Pete's / Tampa's good points and take full advantage of that.
Yes, you are right.
However, I don't think it would be a good idea, in the long term, to keep the main office there (an office could continue to be there, just not the main one).
Frankly, although I am not St Pete's best friend (Florida? Come on, it's like...HOT!), as long as we find good people there - and believe me, we have -- or good people who are willing to go there --that we have too--, I think we should focus on the real things that this organisation needs. I seem to recall that the primary purpose of this thread was to hire a volunteer coordinator.
Volunteer coordinator, anyone?
Cheers,
Delphine
On 3/2/07, Delphine Ménard [email protected] wrote:
I seem to recall that the primary purpose of this thread was to hire a volunteer coordinator.
Volunteer coordinator, anyone?
I presume other avenues are also being followed on this one. Looking at the responsibilities it seems this position is going to require a very uniquely skilled person. And there no mention of what the pay range is going to be. Are we talking $30K/year, $100K/year, more? For that matter, it's not even determined if the position is going to be full time or part time, and if it is going to require showing up at the office or telecommuting.
Prior experience is an advantage, but not required? My wife once worked as a secretary for a non-profit, should I see if she's interested? Actually, I suppose she doesn't really have any familiarity with the WMF or Wikipedia or anything. Of the people I know around here, she's the only one I think could handle the job (who isn't already happily employed somewhere else).
Anthony
On 3/2/07, Anthony [email protected] wrote:
Prior experience is an advantage, but not required? My wife once worked as a secretary for a non-profit, should I see if she's interested?
Sure, why not? We'll be happy to look over her CV. At the moment, we're open to exploring different possibilities for this position, so I'd encourage anyone (including those not willing to work in FL - but please make that clear) to apply.
Delphine Ménard wrote:
On 3/2/07, Daniel Mayer wrote:
But that is a longer term strategy. Right now, I think we should try to make best use of our current location. Thus the need I expressed to sell St Pete's / Tampa's good points and take full advantage of that.
Yes, you are right.
However, I don't think it would be a good idea, in the long term, to keep the main office there (an office could continue to be there, just not the main one).
Frankly, although I am not St Pete's best friend (Florida? Come on, it's like...HOT!), as long as we find good people there - and believe me, we have -- or good people who are willing to go there --that we have too--, I think we should focus on the real things that this organisation needs. I seem to recall that the primary purpose of this thread was to hire a volunteer coordinator.
Volunteer coordinator, anyone?
The concern that becomes apparent from reading this thread is that living in St. Pete's would very strongly favour having this job go to an American. To be sure some of the paying jobs can only be done at the headquarters, but this is very much an international organization which should do more to open opportunities for citizens of other nations. The nature of this opening suggests that the work could be done anywhere in the world without the need to move to the United States.
Ec
Ray Saintonge wrote:
The concern that becomes apparent from reading this thread is that living in St. Pete's would very strongly favour having this job go to an American. To be sure some of the paying jobs can only be done at the headquarters, but this is very much an international organization which should do more to open opportunities for citizens of other nations. The nature of this opening suggests that the work could be done anywhere in the world without the need to move to the United States.
Ec
I think that any specific location anywhere in the world is going to favor one nationality over another. Even Brussels is going to be very Euro-centric, and I could go on and on about other major cities throughout the world. This is not really a very legitimate reply.
I will say in defense of Florida (although Miami would be a bit better in this regard), this is America's gateway to the Caribbean Islands, and home to a very diverse number of ethnic groups that I would challenge you to find anywhere in the world outside of perhaps NYC or San Francisco.
To me, this is a very anti-American attitude that is strongly suggesting that perhaps the WMF needs to re-incorporate somewhere in the EU. If somebody from say South Africa were to work with somebody from Japan on a daily and face to face basis, where would you suggest that they find as a common location to meet, work, and live?
I will also defend keeping the WMF in America at least so far as I think you would have a very hard time trying to find a place that is more politically stable or has similar economic stability and 1st world infrastructure necessary to carry out the mission of the WMF. The last realistic attempted military invasion to the heartland of America took place in 1812. Can you say that about any other country in the world except perhaps Switzerland? Even that could be argued in light of WWII, but I won't belabor that point. In addition, the WMF is already in America, and much of the legal underpinnings and relationships are based upon American law.
I guess I just don't see the point to all of this anyway or why this thread has brought out the attitudes that this has. We are a very diverse group of people all working together, where I, as an American living in rural America in the heart of the Rocky Mountains have nearly daily conversations with people from Poland, the UK, and South Africa on collaborative writing projects. Often I don't even know the nationality of the people that I am working with, or even what continent of the world they are really at when I am having these discussions. I fail to see why this particular position as a Volunteer Coordinator would have to be any different in this regard.
-- Robert Horning
Robert Horning wrote:
Ray Saintonge wrote:
The concern that becomes apparent from reading this thread is that living in St. Pete's would very strongly favour having this job go to an American. To be sure some of the paying jobs can only be done at the headquarters, but this is very much an international organization which should do more to open opportunities for citizens of other nations. The nature of this opening suggests that the work could be done anywhere in the world without the need to move to the United States.
I think that any specific location anywhere in the world is going to favor one nationality over another. Even Brussels is going to be very Euro-centric, and I could go on and on about other major cities throughout the world. This is not really a very legitimate reply.
I said nothing about moving the headquarters. What I sought to emphasize was that opportunities should be equal for citizens of all coountries.
I will say in defense of Florida (although Miami would be a bit better in this regard), this is America's gateway to the Caribbean Islands, and home to a very diverse number of ethnic groups that I would challenge you to find anywhere in the world outside of perhaps NYC or San Francisco.
As far as which city in the United States should have the headquarters, I have no complaints about having it where it is. Seattle might personally be more convenient for me, but on that level we would probably all like to hav it closer.
To me, this is a very anti-American attitude that is strongly suggesting that perhaps the WMF needs to re-incorporate somewhere in the EU. If somebody from say South Africa were to work with somebody from Japan on a daily and face to face basis, where would you suggest that they find as a common location to meet, work, and live?
It's more pro-internationalist than anti-American. I said nothing about re-incorporating anywhere.
I will also defend keeping the WMF in America at least so far as I think you would have a very hard time trying to find a place that is more politically stable or has similar economic stability and 1st world infrastructure necessary to carry out the mission of the WMF. The last realistic attempted military invasion to the heartland of America took place in 1812.
See [[War of 1812]]. The United States was not invaded; it did the invading. It was an opportunistic and expansionist attempt to take advantage of the fact that most British troops were tied down by the little Corsican.
Can you say that about any other country in the world except perhaps Switzerland? Even that could be argued in light of WWII, but I won't belabor that point. In addition, the WMF is already in America, and much of the legal underpinnings and relationships are based upon American law.
That seems more like an excuse than a reason.
I guess I just don't see the point to all of this anyway or why this thread has brought out the attitudes that this has. We are a very diverse group of people all working together, where I, as an American living in rural America in the heart of the Rocky Mountains have nearly daily conversations with people from Poland, the UK, and South Africa on collaborative writing projects. Often I don't even know the nationality of the people that I am working with, or even what continent of the world they are really at when I am having these discussions. I fail to see why this particular position as a Volunteer Coordinator would have to be any different in this regard.
Sure. Why would it not then be acceptable that the volunteer co-ordinator from any of these countries? If the person is unable to secure the needed visas to work at the U.S. headquarters that should not be an impediment to getting the job.
Ec
Ray Saintonge wrote:
Robert Horning wrote:
I guess I just don't see the point to all of this anyway or why this thread has brought out the attitudes that this has. We are a very diverse group of people all working together, where I, as an American living in rural America in the heart of the Rocky Mountains have nearly daily conversations with people from Poland, the UK, and South Africa on collaborative writing projects. Often I don't even know the nationality of the people that I am working with, or even what continent of the world they are really at when I am having these discussions. I fail to see why this particular position as a Volunteer Coordinator would have to be any different in this regard.
Sure. Why would it not then be acceptable that the volunteer co-ordinator from any of these countries? If the person is unable to secure the needed visas to work at the U.S. headquarters that should not be an impediment to getting the job.
Ec
Besides the rest of this reply being part of a flame war (I apologize having started that), I think the above part is a very valid question that does need to be answered. I don't see any really strong reason why this position has to be an American any more than anything else, although there may be a perception of having to be somebody at the "headquarters" of the WMF, where ever that might be.
Part of this is more what the job duties of this position is going to be. The extent that a position like this could be done through telecommuting is something that perhaps ought to be discussed, although as originally envisioned there was to be somebody who could "answer the phones" for the WMF in regards to this being a "staff" member in the office. But at the same time there are several Wikimedia users who are very tech savvy and might even be able to have even conventional land-line telephone calls re-routed to practically anywhere in the world that has a reasonably high speed network link. The normal concept of a traditional office is really something that would at best be an interface to those older more established bureaucracies who can't conceive of anything different.
There are problems with telecommuting, but from my experience in being involved with telecommuting employees is that the "remote" employee only gets into trouble when a new boss takes over that simply doesn't understand the idea in the first place. I spent nearly four years working with a software development team that was located across 3 different states simultaneously working on the very same software application. It is something that can be done and is done quite successfully.
There is no reason for the Wikimedia Foundation, which already is noted for pushing "leading edge" software technologies and being a very visible with new ways of working with content creation, to have to stick with the traditional view of a business office and "headquarters". This sort of telecommuting shouldn't be necessarily more expensive than having an employee in St. Petersburg, Florida, otherwise it isn't worth doing. But even trying to establish a position like this even in a formal business office is still going to require some substantial overhead above and beyond the salary of this individual.
-- Robert Horning
Hmmmm
Instead of chatting about the weather, could we talk more about the job itself ?
Are they some people on this list that might be interested, but are not sure because they did not entirely understand what the job would encompass ?
Ant
On 3/1/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does not have its head office in or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice weather what does St Pete / Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded organizations; not to mention easy access to consulates)?
Lack of income taxes is a nice feature. The cost of living is much more reasonable than say San Francisco or New York City, and you get much more living space for that money. There are quite a few beaches and parks, which I suppose goes along with the relatively nice weather. Unemployment is very low here right now. Internet access is fairly good - we have Fios available in lots of places and EVDO is available throughout the Tampa Bay area.
Just a quick list off the top of my head. Personally it doesn't matter to me all that much where I live, so what I can offer in this category is pretty limited.
If money were no object I'd probably live in New York City. Actually, if I really had the money to live anywhere I'd probably go snowbird and spend some time in NYC, some in Florida, some in Arizona, etc.
Oh well, hope I was able to help a bit.
Anthony
--- Anthony [email protected] wrote:
Lack of income taxes is a nice feature. The cost of living is much more reasonable than say San Francisco or New York City, and you get much more living space for that money. There are quite a few beaches and parks, which I suppose goes along with the relatively nice weather. Unemployment is very low here right now. Internet access is fairly good - we have Fios available in lots of places and EVDO is available throughout the Tampa Bay area.
That is exactly the type of list I was looking for. My point, was that, since few people have ever heard of St Pete, that any job offer that required/would prefer a move to the area, would include a list of what the area has to offer.
-- mav
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Anthony wrote:
On 3/1/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does not have its head office in or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice weather what does St Pete / Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded organizations; not to mention easy access to consulates)?
Lack of income taxes is a nice feature. The cost of living is much more reasonable than say San Francisco or New York City, and you get much more living space for that money. There are quite a few beaches and parks, which I suppose goes along with the relatively nice weather. Unemployment is very low here right now. Internet access is fairly good - we have Fios available in lots of places and EVDO is available throughout the Tampa Bay area.
Just a quick list off the top of my head. Personally it doesn't matter to me all that much where I live, so what I can offer in this category is pretty limited.
If money were no object I'd probably live in New York City. Actually, if I really had the money to live anywhere I'd probably go snowbird and spend some time in NYC, some in Florida, some in Arizona, etc.
Oh well, hope I was able to help a bit.
Anthony
A few years back, the Boy Scouts of America moved their national headquarters from New Jersey (near NYC) to Texas for what I think were reasons very similar to those listed above. I don't know all of the particulars of this matter, but the needs of non-profit organizations is quite a bit different than what a for-profit company may want to be involved with. Certainly non-profit groups don't have nearly the money to pay people to live in these major cities where the cost of living is insanely high, even by 1st world standards.
Wikia may have moved to San Francisco in part because that is the heart of Silicon Valley and has some real potential in terms of venture capital and computer-related business partnerships. I don't think having Wikipedia go commercial is necessarily a long-term goal of the WMF.
I've only been to St. Petersburg, FL once, but I loved the area and felt it was a very comfortable place to have a family and have much of the normal everyday items you would like if you have a modest income. It certainly is not in the middle of rural America by any means but rather a medium sized city with the usual cultural and professional sports opportunities of similar sized cities.
-- Robert Horning
On 3/1/07, Robert Horning [email protected] wrote:
Anthony wrote:
On 3/1/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does
not have its head office in
or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice
weather what does St Pete /
Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded
organizations; not to
mention easy access to consulates)?
Lack of income taxes is a nice feature. The cost of living is much more reasonable than say San Francisco or New York City, and you get much more living space for that money. There are quite a few beaches and parks, which I suppose goes along with the relatively nice weather. Unemployment is very low here right now. Internet access is fairly good - we have Fios available in lots of places and EVDO is available throughout the Tampa Bay area.
Just a quick list off the top of my head. Personally it doesn't matter to me all that much where I live, so what I can offer in this category is pretty limited.
If money were no object I'd probably live in New York City. Actually, if I really had the money to live anywhere I'd probably go snowbird and spend some time in NYC, some in Florida, some in Arizona, etc.
Oh well, hope I was able to help a bit.
Anthony
A few years back, the Boy Scouts of America moved their national headquarters from New Jersey (near NYC) to Texas for what I think were reasons very similar to those listed above. I don't know all of the particulars of this matter, but the needs of non-profit organizations is quite a bit different than what a for-profit company may want to be involved with. Certainly non-profit groups don't have nearly the money to pay people to live in these major cities where the cost of living is insanely high, even by 1st world standards.
Wikia may have moved to San Francisco in part because that is the heart of Silicon Valley and has some real potential in terms of venture capital and computer-related business partnerships. I don't think having Wikipedia go commercial is necessarily a long-term goal of the WMF.
Indeed. However, though I don't know about Wikia's particular reasons, there are also possible cultural reasons for being someplace like San Francisco, as well as business ones: you can't turn around in this area (Northern California/Silicon Valley) without running into someone who is passionate about social software, wikis, Internet startups and the like and who has some great new idea about the above. It seems like something relevant is going on every day, and media coverage is good -- even the regular newspaper covers detailed news from the tech world.
From what I've seen Boston and Seattle are similar, but I've never been
anywhere else in the U.S. (and I've been to most of it) that has close to the tech-centeredness of these three cities. I don't know if St. Pete has anything comparable, community-wise, but I doubt it. Of course the price one pays for this is astronomical rent, and as others have pointed out that might not be the wisest thing to do with our limited money. However, certainly a lot of good talent, from programmers to publishers to venture capitalists, gets attracted to San Francisco and similar areas, which is one possible reason to move -- an in-person volunteer community could be built around the office as well as an online one.
-- phoebe
On 3/1/07, phoebe ayers [email protected] wrote:
However, certainly a lot of good talent, from programmers to publishers to venture capitalists, gets attracted to San Francisco and similar areas, which is one possible reason to move -- an in-person volunteer community could be built around the office as well as an online one.
-- phoebe
I think that is better handled by regional chapters.
On 3/1/07, geni [email protected] wrote:
On 3/1/07, phoebe ayers [email protected] wrote:
However, certainly a lot of good talent, from programmers to publishers to venture capitalists, gets attracted to San Francisco and similar areas, which is one possible reason to move -- an in-person volunteer community could be built around the office as well as an online one.
-- phoebe
I think that is better handled by regional chapters.
That's a good point. If you think about it, there's no reason that an in-person volunteer community can't exist in San Francisco anyway.
Whether or not the WMF moves its headquarters to San Francisco, it sounds like an excellent place to start up a local users group (or whatever the wiki-centric term for that would be).
Anthony
On 3/1/07, Anthony [email protected] wrote:
On 3/1/07, geni [email protected] wrote:
On 3/1/07, phoebe ayers [email protected] wrote:
However, certainly a lot of good talent, from programmers to publishers to
venture
capitalists, gets attracted to San Francisco and similar areas, which
is one
possible reason to move -- an in-person volunteer community could be
built
around the office as well as an online one.
-- phoebe
I think that is better handled by regional chapters.
That's a good point. If you think about it, there's no reason that an in-person volunteer community can't exist in San Francisco anyway.
Whether or not the WMF moves its headquarters to San Francisco, it sounds like an excellent place to start up a local users group (or whatever the wiki-centric term for that would be).
Anthony
That's certainly true -- the office definitely isn't a requirement for such a local group, it's just one of the possible things that could happen with a move. And as I said, I'm not that familiar with St. Pete -- it sounds from Danny's message like there's a nice community there as well.
Anyway, organizing a greater-SF Bay meetup has been on my to-do list for months now :) If anyone is interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/San_Francisco_2
-- phoebe
On 01/03/07, Anthony [email protected] wrote:
Lack of income taxes is a nice feature. The cost of living is much more reasonable than say San Francisco or New York City, and you get much more living space for that money. There are quite a few beaches and parks, which I suppose goes along with the relatively nice weather. Unemployment is very low here right now. Internet access is fairly good - we have Fios available in lots of places and EVDO is available throughout the Tampa Bay area.
And you can see for yourself what all those Carl Hiaasen novels are talking about!
um, scratch that one.
- d.
On 01/03/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote:
Hm. Methinks it is rather odd that an international organization does not have its head office in or near a world city. I mean, other than the cool wikijob and the nice weather what does St Pete / Tampa have in terms of services (including connections to like-minded organizations; not to mention easy access to consulates)?
I think to a great degree this is a modern shift; it's becoming less and less vital for an organisation to have to be in a major city in order to function, especially an organisation which is simply a central point for a wide virtual network.
Plus, inertia. When you've started, and you're doing fine, it's rather jarring to have to move when there's no pressing reason to. And WMF does seem to be doing well enough with hiring good people in the St. Petersburg area; it's not like we're scraping the barrel because of being in the sticks.
--- Andrew Gray [email protected] wrote:
I think to a great degree this is a modern shift; it's becoming less and less vital for an organisation to have to be in a major city in order to function, especially an organisation which is simply a central point for a wide virtual network.
IIRC, something like 70% of communication is non-verbal. Being in close proximity to many like-minded organizations and representatives from other nations, would therefore be advantageous to our goal. You simply are not going to find that in St Pete.
As an organization, we have already found that we can accomplish a great deal more with face-to-face meetings that by using IRC, phones and email. Proximity will increase opportunities for communication and thus relationship building.
The savings in travel expenses combined with increasing the opportunities to establish strategic relationships (and funding opportunities) should more than offset the increased cost in rent and in cost in living increases for staff. Those costs can and should be mitigated for by avoiding actually having the office in a world city, but just outside it.
But that is a longer term strategy. Right now, I think we should try to make best use of our current location. Thus the need I expressed to sell St Petes / Tampas good points and take full advantage of that. However, I dont think it would be a good idea, in the long term, to keep the main office there (an office could continue to be there, just not the main one).
-- mav
____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
On 3/2/07, Daniel Mayer [email protected] wrote: [snip]
The savings in travel expenses combined with increasing the opportunities to establish strategic relationships (and funding opportunities) should more than offset the increased cost in rent and in cost in living increases for staff. Those costs can and should be mitigated for by avoiding actually having the office in a world city, but just outside it.
The difference in expected payscale for a single employee between St. Pete and the DC area will pay for something between 50-100 roundtrip flights between Tampa and DC, depending on the exact scheduling. The flight takes only two hours, and the Tampa airports as well as all three of the DC area airports are easy to deal with.
The difference in expected pay for someone in the bay area would be much greater, yet the bay area lacks much of the governmental and non-profit base that DC has.
We also already have a board member who lives in the DC area.
I think this thread is sort of silly.
As far as attractive places to live go, St. Petersburg Florida is pretty good. As far as connectivity to other organizations go, we're better off with single good representatives near important cities. We need to keep in mind that no location is close to everything.